St Helena : Radio St. Helena Interviews Governor Clancy
Submitted by Saint Helena Herald (Juanita Brock) 26.03.2006 (Article Archived on 09.04.2006)

St. Helena Radio did an extensive interview with H. E. the Governor Mr. Clancy. Following is the interview in full

                      Interview with H. E. the Governor Mr. Clancy

                                                                      By Radio St. Helena

St. Helena Radio has interviewed H. E. the Governor Mr. Clancy on a wide variety of subjects.

Robin: While you were away official business continued here on the island, and there are a few issues which came up, let me begin first with the issue of HIV screening. Now while you were away a press release was issued by Executive Council stating that Immigrant workers mainly those associated with the airport would not be HIV screened. How do you feel about this?

Governor: Well I think this a very difficult issue that we need to face up to as an island. As far as we know there are no cases of AIDS or HIV on the island, so I can fully appreciate that people do want to keep the risks of HIV and AIDS coming to the island to the absolute minimum. But on the other hand, I think we are exposed because we are part of the global economy. We do get people coming here on the ship now, admittedly most of them perhaps not in the higher risk category, because they are retired people for the most part, but we do get people who work on the ship who go to Cape Town and there are some risks there obviously and when we do open the world, mainly in South Africa, UK, Europe, I guess again we are going to bring in more people and if we’re then talking about screening those tourists, I think we would be at a disadvantage.

Robin: Can I interrupt you there and say that surely the issue of Immigrant workers and the issue of tourism and HIV are two separate issues at this point in time, this influx of tourism is not gonna happen until the airport is built in about 3 years, so can’t we separate the two issues and deal with them separately.

Governor: I think it’s very difficult to separate them, and I think in the public meeting, (I mean I wasn’t there, it was as you know, before I got back on the island.) I’m not sure all the pros and cons were really fully explored there. Because as I say I fully appreciate the feeling that we should keep risks to the minimum, and yet there are risks there in the outside world and how do we minimise those risks and what do we do if there are returning Saints with HIV, what do we do? That person has a right to come here so what’s the point of screening that person?

Robin: But surely you can appreciate that St Helena is not setting a precedent by asking for an HIV test for Immigrant Workers…this is not a precedent we’re setting here; this has been done on other islands.

Governor: I think there’s been a lot of confusion. Australia has been cited and just this afternoon I was looking at the requirements related to Australia, I think part of the confusion is lots of places including Australia say that for Doctors and nurses it may well be the case that you are not allowed in to work with HIV because of the obvious risks like blood to blood transmission if you cut yourself while you’re doing surgery on a person.

Robin: But in my research I also noticed places like Mauritius and St Kitts require those who want to work there to have a negative HIV test.

Governor: Well I don’t know how successful they have been. Australia was being cited as I understand at the public meeting and I have been looking at the requirements this afternoon, there is no automatic barring of someone with HIV.

Robin: Just looking at my original point this is not a precedent we are setting here, so just looking, also why is HIV being high-lighted because an entry permit requires a host of things like for example tests for TB, Police record. Why has HIV been picked up by EXCO?

Governor: Well it was a particular issue raised in terms of contract and what requirements are we going to set out in contract, I think the difference between TB for instance and HIV is that it’s more of a communicable disease its easy for you to catch it from that close droplet infection; you can’t do that with HIV there really has to be sexual activity you can’t just catch it from me just by speaking to me.

Robin: No I can understand that, what I’m asking is that why has it been high-lighted because if you go to the Falklands or Ascension for example you are required to have a medical examination, clean police record. Why has the issue of HIV just come up but not for example like I said me you or a murderer would still be allowed to have a work permit or would it be checked to see if we have a criminal record or not.

Governor: Yes there are checks for criminal records because one of the requirements of a work permit is that the person is of good standing and he understands English as well as having skills that could be useful to the island.

Robin: You mention there that this is one of the things that could be put in the contract for the building of the airport. Are there other things that are placed into the contract like the HIV screening or has that just been one officially that has just come up?

Governor: Well if I can be clear it’s a question of when we put out the invitation to tender all contractors must be very clear what perimeters they need to work within because we’re asking them to come up with a price. We’re saying really “how much are you going to charge us for designing, building and operating the airport?” and of course the answer to that is “well it depends” and that’s why we’re taking so much trouble over this invitation to tender that you need to specify what you want and what requirements you are going to ask a contractor to look at. So also some of the other things - we have looked at minimum wages and we have decided that it wouldn’t be appropriate or particularly helpful to introduce a minimum wage at this time. If you were going do that you need to do it and spell it out in the invitation to tender so anyone bidding knows actually the basics on which they have to price their Bid.

Robin: Just looking at the contract to tender and the issue of HIV here. Since the initial press release, I believe around the 20 January, a further one has come out and saying no it was a miscommunication in the press release and the decision is now been reviewed. Is that a reaction to public reaction or is that a foresight in Executive Council or an after thought?

Governor: I think all I can say on that is that I am aware of those press notices and what we are doing now is looking again at the issue and in that context the Department for International Development is helping us and is providing us with a lot more information so that we can revisit the earlier advice to me as the Governor on the basics of all this further information that is been put together. Which is why I am aware of what the position is in Australia. People are providing me with that information.

Robin: Just looking at now that this information is coming to you as the Governor through Executive Council. Do you think the initial decision was foresighted or short-sighted sorry should I say in terms of not consulting the adequate groups already set up on the island and a rash decision?

Governor: Well as I say there is some urgency in this in that we want the invitation to tender to go out in May so we do need to resolve these issues, so there was that urgency attached to it. Also this matter had been discussed with the Development Board before it went to the Executive Council and that’s the arrangement that had been set up to try to see in the development of policy whether we could get an input from people on the island who were outside the normal decision making process of Executive Council.

Robin: Just looking at, like you say you consulted the Development Board, I also believe no consultation was done with, for example the Sexual Health Strategy Group - those groups that have been set up for social impact. Will these Groups in future be consulted on decisions related to social impact?

Governor: Well I can’t give commitments generally except in so far as saying generally we do try to consult as much as possible.

Robin: Any idea when the decision will be made on the HIV screening and what requirement will be included into the contract to tender?

Governor: Well certainly the aim must be to do it by next month so that it can be in the invitation to tender in May.

Robin: That will be a time line about a month?

Governor: That’s the time line because people are urgently working on this now and it would need to be reconsidered. I think the other relevant thing is that in each of the interested consortia, at the moment there are three consortia, there is interest from a South African Company naturally enough, given the location of St Helena. There may be difficulty in them screening workers because you know they are not able to do that as part of South African legislation so far as I understand.

Robin: So just looking at that contract and the HIV issue will the recent public meeting and the public talking and general feeling of the public be considered in the decision?

Governor: Yes. Very much so. Obviously there was a well attended public meeting, there were lots of discussions. I think there was some perhaps lack of appreciation of what is the position in the Territories and some lack of appreciation of the fact that in the longer term the only way to protect against AIDS is through education and people’s behaviour because whilst one can say “well you know there is heavy instance of HIV in South Africa” it is not unknown in other places and some of those places may provide us with tourists in the future.

Robin: Just looking at this issue though because I personally did a show on this issue and I invited people to call in. There was a lot of confusion, I will admit that, in terms of Executive Council’s decision, but let me ask this question because we are always hearing the buzz phase “transparency in Government”. Obviously you were away so if there was a mistake in the initial press release and it was being reconsidered why not come out and say that from Executive Council? Why be all cloak and dagger for the want of a better term, and allow the rumour mill to continue as opposed to coming out and just being transparent and say “look we’re still working on it. There’s not a final decision.” Why not do that?

Governor: I don’t think I can comment on that because that was done whilst I was away when I was no longer Governor so I wasn’t specifically consulted on that.

Robin: Will that be the norm in the future? Will that be encouraged in the future? Do you know?

Governor: In terms of what? Transparency?

Robin: Yes transparency because I know from the issue of HIV the initial press release caused the outcry and then just before the public meeting, on the Friday, and the meeting was on the following Monday, another press release was issued saying that, the issue will be reviewed and taken into consideration. Why not say that in the very beginning? Why wait a whole month instead of withholding information basically?

Governor: I am finding it very difficult. All I can say is that I’m personally very committed to openness and transparency. It doesn’t mean that we can tell the public everything that we are looking at, because sometimes you have to sit down very quietly as a body, be it the Development Board or the Executive Council and look at these very complicated issues because there is no simple solution to this and the ramifications. There are implications in whichever solution you go for. So if we did say right we will definitely going to want to screen for HIV and so if people come here from the contractors and if we find out that they have HIV then they have to go back onto the ship that then is going to impact on the cost of the airport, which may in turn lead to questions - well can we continue with it on the same projected time line? So, you know, each of these decisions does have wider implications.

Robin: The point I’m asking though is why not. Obviously you could not say that because you were not here, but why not say that when the question was asked, to be transparent why don’t you just come out and say what you’ve just said in terms of just saying nothing and then obviously that would inform the Public and let them know that you are aware of the situation. This is the situation and that we are working on it as opposed to saying nothing and allowing the Public to make up their own mind. I’m sure you can appreciate this is a small community and it has a well known rumour mill, So people will quite naturally make up their own minds, so why not come and say what you have just said or in the future you are just going to say what you have just said and things like that when the questions do arise of policy or issues.

Governor: I’m going to repeat. We do our best to get things aired in the Public but first of all as I say sometimes bodies need to work out their line, but I think we should be open if new information or evidence comes to light. We shouldn’t be afraid again to look at things and to make it clear to the Public that we are looking at them.

Robin: That leads me onto my next question here, an issue that arose whilst you were away, that of Immigration. While you were away a majority or practically all of the Immigration Board resigned except for two members. Now before I ask you about it how do you react to the fact of an entire board resigning?

Governor: Well I think its concerning because it does disrupt the regular business of the Immigration Control Board. But I should say I did see the members of the Immigration Control Board who had resigned and they specifically asked for a meeting with me as soon I got back. I saw them last Friday morning. They went to great lengths that this wasn’t in any fit of pique or it wasn’t as any response to me deciding in my Appeal Body role to over rule the decision that they had made. They were fully appreciative that I had a different role, and that in acting as an Appeal Body I couldn’t consult them. I just need to go a head on my own basis, on the facts that were before me and to reach a decision. So we had a very useful discussion and they fully appreciated that, as I say they made it very clear that they weren’t resigning because I had carried out my role and I didn’t happen to agree with the earlier decision.

Robin: Are you at liberty to discuss why you overturned their decision as the Appeal Body?

Governor: I think at this stage what I discussed with them was that there were a number of procedural aspects that led me to believe that a different decision could be reached and also some matters of substance. I think that’s about all I can say really and again we came to the conclusion that we do need to look at our procedures more generally because in fact I was the Chief Secretary when these procedures were drawn up and the legislation was passed by the Legislative Council. I had a major part at the time and this is going back to 1999, in drawing up the policy guidance for the Immigration Control Board. But you know I have no sense of “well I did it I was involved in it and therefore it should stand,” I fully recognise that we are now in a different era as we move toward air access, so perhaps we do need to take a look at the policy and legislation to see whether it is suitable for our future development of St Helena.

Robin: I realise that the members of the Immigration Board who do resign have a fine in place if they disclose the reasons why theyresigned. Is there any hope of the reasons coming to light in the Public domain, the reasons for their resignations? You said it was not one particular thing there, but the reasons that built up to that decision.

Governor: I don’t think it would be particularly helpful. What I said to the members was and I repeat now, was that they are doing a very difficult job obviously to the best of their abilities, that they are giving a lot of time to it, that it’s often an unpopular position to be in because they are making decisions every time they meet about individuals. It’s not just about some general policy discussion. They are making decision that are affecting individuals and that actually is very difficult on a small island, because you do get some people in support of the applicant and others who feel that their families or businesses may be affected, so it’s a pretty crunchy position to be in. So I admire all such members whether it’s on that Board or other Boards who do come forward and are prepared to serve in this kind of environment in a small island.

Robin: Do you think that it would be difficult to recruit people for the immigration board now that you have had wholesale resignation ?

Governor: Its not proving easy that. We have already approached some people and I think its always likely to be a little difficult because I suppose the recent events have just underlined what I was saying that, you know, that you are in quite an exposed position. People may not know what individual view you took on the Board but certainly they are very much aware of what decision the board took which affects an individual or individuals. So as I say, you are in that crunchy position, perhaps that’s been underlined and so maybe we should try to enroll (?) some people but if we can’t do that then I’m looking at other options obviously.

Robin: Are you at liberty to discuss those options at this moment?

Governor: No not really.

Robin: Just looking at that earlier, as you are the Appeal Body you are not allowed to discuss with the Immigration Board their reasons for either refusing or allowing an entry. Is that correct?

Governor: I would amend that just slightly. I think what I was saying and meaning to say was that when I am acting in that Appeal Body capacity, I need to look at the case, not completely afresh, but with all the evidence. So I was given a folder before I left St Helena which had all the applications in it, the objections from people following the advertisement, the record of the decisions of the Immigration Board, what the appelants were saying, why they think they should still be awarded the permits, what the public solicitor was saying on their behalf. So I had all that material . And there was further material sent to me when I was in Tristan da Cunha. So that was my job to look at that. If I had then gone back and started a discussion with the Immigration Control Board as to why you did this or why you did that, I think, quite rightly, the Public Solicitor would have said there was a danger of this looking like collusion, you know, trying to get to a joint conclusion rather than actually the Immigration Control Board had reached their conclusion and I was required, as Governor, to reach a separate conclusion, based on slightly different considerations, based on the considerations on what people were saying in the appeal as well as all the material of the original application.

Robin: Just looking at that once again. This decision was made when you were off Island. Any particular reason why there was so much urgency in making this decision while you were away?

Governor: As I indicated I was Governor when I was on Tristan da Cunha. There was an Acting Governor, as you know, in place whilst I was on the ship where telecommunications and other contacts is difficult, so I was presented with most of the information before I left. I needed further information, particularly the Public Solicitor’s input. So that went down to Tristan, I couldn’t receive sensitive information like that obviously on the ship, so it reached me in Tristan. I had some free time there so I thought it was incumbent on me to deal with that as expeditiously, as quickly, as possible.

Robin: I’m sure you can appreciate public perception at this point in that this is the second contentious decision that you have made since you have been away. Is this going to develop into a habit or is this bad timing or exactly what is this because, as I said, public perception is that a lot of contentious decisions are made off Island.

Governor: I wouldn’t have described it as a habit although it may continue to happen and I certainly don’t see it as a bad habit. I think what needs to be appreciated and I think that governors in the past have also found this, the difficulty is that I am Governor of three Island, so when I’m on St Helena I’m often making decisions relating to Ascension Island and they seem to accept that I cannot be in three places at once. So I will often chair the Island Council meeting from St Helena.

That is accepted and those making decisions then at a distance similarly. What I was doing on Tristan was making some decisions from a distance about St Helena matters. Similarly when I’ve been on Ascension I made a decision and it was in the case of Jeremy Thomas.  So a very important decision but the Public Solicitor had quite rightly, been pressing for that decision as early as possible on behalf of his client. His client wanted to know where he stood, so I think its incumbent then upon me as Governor when I can make that decision I have all the material in front of me because one of the big things for me was for me to get legal advice - I couldn’t rely on the Attorney General - because I was in regular contact with an FCO legal advisor.

It so happened also that a legal advisor came down to Ascension when I chaired the meeting there for the issues of right of abode and so on, so again we had face to face discussions about my responsibilities with regard to Jeremy Thomas. So, you know it was advantageous.  I was in face-to-face contact with my FCO legal advisor because Iwas on Ascension, and so that helped to expedite things.

Robin: Just looking at whilst you were away, also the issue of immigration. The work permit for the Chinese restaurant shall we say, there was also a Fishing Licence refused by Exco. Now again from my vantage point that seems contradictory, that you are allowing inward investment for a restaurant, for a business, and you are also refusing a licence for a business that isn’t already on the island, so there might be a need for it or a space for it to grow. How can seemingly two contradictory decisions be made?

Governor: I’m not aware of the Fishing Licence that you are referring to. Is it sports fishing?

Robin: Yes the Sports Fishing Licence.

Governor:

This article is the Property and Copyright of Saint Helena Herald.